Tools For Finding & Maintaining Aligned Friendships with Nicole Garfunkel

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Things We Dive Into In This Episode:

1. Q&A - friendship breakups & body comparison

2. Why our friendship has lasted the test of time

3. Qualities we want each other to celebrate more and show the world more

📘Resources

• Nutrition & Intuition Retreat - Book a Commitment Free Discovery Call!

• Tools to Step Out of Body Avoidance and Access Self-Confidence & Intuition podcast episode

Nicole Garfunkel is a personal stylist and body image consultant who works specifically with people who are recovering from disordered eating and navigating changes in their body and inevitable changes in their closets. And she's also my Director of Operations at Full Soul Nutrition. You can learn more about Nicole on her website & instagram.

📌Episode Highlights

Q&A

I'm going through a friendship breakup right now, and it feels like I'm going through an actual breakup, and I'm not sure what to do or how to process it.

• Friendship breakups are just as intense as regular break ups.

• Process the same way you’d process a regular breakup - reflect on what went down, look at it from both sides.

• Take this time to reflect on what you want your relationships to look like going forward.

• When you’re ready, put yourself out there and meet new people - meetup events, co-working, fitness classes, bumble bff, go to a bar solo, travel, etc.

How do I deal with the comparing mind that comes up when I'm with my family? I have a really different body type from everyone else in my family. Everyone in my family is much thinner than me and I feel like I stick out.

• Body acceptance will help free you from this comparing mindset.

• It takes time, but is easier when you have support of friends, family, body image coaches, dietitians, therapists, personal stylists, etc.

• Make sure you're taking extra care of yourself when you’re around your family so that you can be more resilient to these negative body image thoughts.

• Thinness does not equal confidence. So ground yourself in the fact and focus on how you feel about yourself rather than how other people feel about you.

Exercise for reflecting on your friendships:

Answer these questions separately (in a journal or note on your phone) and talk them out together:

• What do you think makes our friendship last? What do you think is the glue for our friendship?

• What are three things you see in me that I wish I celebrated about myself more or showed the world more?

You can save them in a note in your phone and look back at them whenever you need.

Thanks for listening! 💖 Stay tuned to my website for more episode updates and other exciting programs and resources.

Transcript

Caitie: The fact that we have such a silliness together and also such a seriousness together. And I take you so, so seriously. And I'm also laughing with you nonstop. That is the dream soulmateship. Truly. There's this quote that's like the goal is to laugh forever with someone you take seriously. And I always thought about that in terms of like a partner until I realized that I have that with my best friend.

Welcome to Whole, Full, & Alive, a podcast helping you feed yourself, feel yourself and be yourself. I'm Caitie Corradino. I'm a registered Dietitian-Nutritionist, a body image coach and the founder of Full Soul Nutrition, a method that combines nutrition counseling with a powerful toolkit of somatic healing modalities. I have guided hundreds of clients to freedom with food, their bodies and every aspect of their lives. I've also been through this healing myself, and on this podcast, I want to help you eat with confidence, embrace your body, form aligned relationships and create a life that you're in love with. I'll share actionable tools, no bullshit stories and interviews that will remind you why you have everything you need within you to feel whole, full and alive. Are you ready? Let's get into it.

Hey, welcome back to another episode of Whole, Full, & Alive, the podcast that helps you feed yourself, feel yourself, and be yourself. I am so grateful and excited that you are tuning into today's episode. It is a very special one, and I have a very special guest that I'm going to introduce you to in just a moment. And we're going to be talking about three topics today, I would say. Three topics that might seem disconnected, but are unequivocally connected. We're going to be talking about friendship, you know, what makes a friendship last and how to make a friendship last and friendship breakups and the stickiness of some of that stuff. We're going to be talking about comparison and jealousy a little bit. One of the listener questions is about body comparison. And then a little bit later in the episode, we talk a little bit about jealousy and how to deal with that. And we're gonna be talking a little bit about travel, which is something that I hope you do with friends, with people. I hope you can remember that if you're someone who is in pursuit of adventure, that the people you meet along the way or the people you bring with you are the best part of it all. So today we're talking about friendship, we're talking about body comparison, and we're talking about travel and things like that. 

So before we dive into today's episode and I introduce you to my very, very, very special guest, let's take a deep breath. Inhale through your nose, fill your chest, fill your belly and exhale. Let it go. Okay. 

Okay, today's guest, I'm sure you're on the edge of your seat. Today's guest is... The mother I never had. The sister everyone would want. The friend everybody deserves. I don't know a better person. I don't know a better person. That is a direct quote from Oprah talking about her best friend Gail. And that is how I speak about my best friend, Nicole Garfunkel, who is on the show today. She is my absolute best friend and that is the most important thing that you need to know about her because we are gonna be talking about friendship today and she is also a personal stylist who works specifically with people who are recovering from disordered eating and navigating changes in their body and inevitable changes in their closets. And she's also my Director of Operations at Full Soul Nutrition. And she has helped me plan and organize the Nutrition & Intuition retreat that is coming up in Scotland in just two months from today.

Small plug, by the way, we have two spaces left on the retreat if you would like to join us in this experience, it is gonna be five nights, six days in Scotland, we will be doing breathwork sessions, movement classes, body image workshops, self-confidence workshops, exploring Scotland. This experience is gonna leave you feeling nourished and confident and with a toolkit of holistic wellness practices that you can actually implement when you get home from the retreat and also with a group of new friends. 

So without further ado, she has just been staring at me doing the intro for the last five minutes. I said it was gonna be short. Nicole, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

Nicole: Thank you so much for having me. Let's be honest, nothing you ever say is short. It's always long, and I love you for it. So just, you don't have to change.

Caitie: It's always long and I'm always late. I'm never running exactly on time. I just go with the flow and that's why I have an Operations Director to operationalize like everything, all the big ideas and the passion that I just exude. It's just who I am and Nicole helps me rein it in in the most loving and compassionate way and I love that about her. And here's how today's episode is going to go. Nicole and I are going to answer two listener questions, one about friendship and one about body comparison before we dive in to our other piece of the episode, which is gonna be us doing two exercises that I want you to do with one of your friends after you listen to this episode. So basically answering two listener questions and then Nicole and I are gonna answer some questions about each other as a way to kind of talk about how our friendship has lasted as long as it has. And as a little demo for you because after you listen to this episode we want you to do the exercise that we're gonna do today How does that sound for you Nicole?

Nicole: That sounds amazing. I can't wait. I'm prepared for this. I journaled on this.

Caitie: Let’s dive in. So the first question I received is, I'm going through a friendship breakup right now, and it feels like I'm going through an actual breakup, and I'm not sure what to do or how to process it. 

Nicole: Well, I think that friendship breakups are basically the same as a regular breakup, if not more intense sometimes, because I think the assumption that we have with friendships is that they're going to last forever. And that's just sadly not always the case for whatever reason, people grow apart and that's just a natural part of life that I don't think people talk about enough. So first of all, totally see you in that. We've all been there. It's really tough. So I think just making sure you kind of process it similarly to the way you would process a breakup. Having some sort of closure within yourself and really thinking about what happened there and ponder what you actually want to have in your friendships going forward. And also, what better way to move forward from a friendship breakup than to try to put yourself out there and meet new people? I feel like Caitie and I, because we travel so much, we're always trying to meet new people. So it's just about putting yourself in the places and the environments where you can meet people who align with you and your values. So you can go to different kinds of meetup events, co-working events, even just like going to a bar by yourself and seeing who you strike up a conversation with or going on Bumble BFF. I've done that before. And it's really an amazing way to meet people. So, yeah, I think it's like two prongs, like making sure you process it, but then also making sure you're putting yourself out there to try to meet some new people, to try to fill that gap in a more intentional way.

Caitie: I think validating the grief of a friendship breakup is really important. I feel like we validate the grief of romantic breakups all the time in many different ways. There's like a bajillion songs about romantic breakups. There's books about romantic breakups. There's how to get through a romantic breakup in every which way on the internet. And there's so few resources about friendship breakups. There's so few resources about just how it feels significantly more sticky sometimes to break up with a friend because there's like that limbo of like are we or aren't we whereas like with romantic breakups it's always like we're done we're good and it's very clear it's a little bit more murky with friends sometimes. Sometimes friends do explicitly break up and so that I say kind of like power to you. But when you don't do that, which is most of the time, there is just kind of this murky fade and it's hard and it's important to validate all of the sadness, the anger, the confusion, the frustration that might come with that. And then it's also important to reframe. And I hear this about romantic breakups a lot too and no one talks about this with friendship breakups, but a relationship ending is not a failure. A relationship ending is not a failure. And Nicole and I have been friends for a very long time and we're gonna speak today about what we think has made our friendship last so long. But we're not gonna talk about that because we want all of your friendships to last as long as ours. Not all of your friendships should last as long as our friendship not all of my friendships have lasted as long as my friendship with Nicole. I would say about 90% of my friendships have not lasted as long as my friendship with Nicole has. And that's important because if I did try to make all my friendships last as long as this one, I'd be hanging out with people who are misaligned for me. I'd be hanging out with people who don't really like me for who I am. I'd be hanging out with people who don't really like doing the same things as me or don't share the same values as me or whatever it is. A relationship ending is a success. It's a win. It means that you're moving towards people who are more aligned for you who like you for who you really are. And, you know, maybe sometimes you feel some grief about like, oh, I really miss this person, I really liked this friend or whatever it is. It's like, honestly, if they don't want to be friends with you, you shouldn't want to be friends with them. That's very much like a romantic breakup. You don't want someone who doesn't want you. You don't need to waste any more energy on someone who isn't willing to pour love into you at this moment in your life. So hopefully some of those things feel helpful and kind of scratching the tip of the iceberg with the friendship breakup thing and really remember that a relationship ending is not a failure. I feel like that's such an important reframe for all kinds, all kinds of relationships, whether you're leaving a job, a working relationship, a friendship or a romantic relationship or setting a boundary with a family member. It's usually a sign of growth, rather than a sign of something's wrong with me. 

Thank you so much to the person who submitted that question. I think it will serve a lot of people. And I think, I hope you will feel less alone in the friendship breakup thing because there are so many people tuning in right now who are going through the same shit. And I was just out at a bar with two friends last night and one of my friends was talking about this very thing about a very weird friendship breakup she's going through with someone that she's been friends with since elementary school and she feels sticky about it. It's like this whole like this happens all of the time so don't be afraid to process it. Don't be afraid to keep processing it. Don't be afraid to validate yourself and just how hard it is. 

Okay, the second question that I received, I think is a really good question for you to speak to Nicole because you have personal experience with this and it also applies to the work you do with people with styling and fashion when their bodies are changing. But this person said, how do I deal with the comparing mind that comes up when I'm with my family? I have a really different body type from everyone else in my family. Everyone in my family is much thinner than me and I feel like I stick out. And I really want to send so much love and compassion to this person and really thank you for saying this because oh my god, you're not alone. Nicole, I think this is something that you've spoken to me about since we were like 10. So if you want to speak more to those questions, you have a lot of wisdom to share.

Nicole: Yeah, I mean, I want to just echo compassion to this person because I do know how you feel and I felt this way basically my whole life. And it's not an easy thing to feel. It's not like, if you have this feeling with people in your life that are more like friends and more like people you can get away from versus your family, where you obviously can't get away from them, you have to kind of face this no matter what. You know, I have always had a different body type than my mom and my sister, like literally since I was a little kid. I'd had a lot of experiences in my adolescence with being told to lose weight. And I just never felt good enough because I could never lose that weight to look like my family. And as soon as I dropped that pursuit of weight loss and actually was like, I'm unique, I'm my own person, it doesn't matter what I look like, then I was really able to kind of break free from that comparison. 

And that's not to say that those insecurities never pop up. They do every once in a while. But I think if you can, first of all, come to accept your body, that is your number one piece of advice. And obviously that takes time. Working with someone like me or like Caitie is really helpful in that. And also, when you do spend time with these family members, just making sure you're taking extra care of yourself so that you can be more resilient to these negative body image thoughts. Doing whatever you can to put yourself in a good headspace is really, really helpful. And another thing that has helped me in the past few years, I would say, is that, you know, I know a lot of thin people, like we all do. And I have found that just because you're thin doesn't mean that you are confident. Some of the people I know who are really thin are some of the most insecure people that I know. I've had a lot of experiences where friends of mine who are thinner than me will tell me that they love my body and told me that they wish that they had my curves and my height and all of this stuff. So if you can look at people and not compare and just focus more on yourself and how you feel about yourself, that is key.

Caitie: The idea of body acceptance is really, really important because there are some people who have never heard of the concept of accepting your body have come to realize I've had basically, you know, my nose in this work for so long, I've been providing body image and eating disorder support for people for 10 years. So I talk about this stuff all day. And I forget that there are individuals who have literally never been told that, maybe it's actually okay to just accept your body shape and size as it is and pursue health rather than pursue a different body. That concept is still radical and revolutionary to people. And I know another concept that is still radical and revolutionary to people is that body acceptance doesn't mean you don't get pissed off at the fact that there's thin privilege in the world. There is absolutely unequivocally in arguably thin privilege in the world. People in thinner body bodies are treated different than people in larger bodies. This is a fact. And we get to be upset about this fact, we get to be angry at this fact, we get to grieve this fact, and we get to feel all of that alongside acceptance of ourselves, alongside love for ourselves, alongside celebration of our unique beauty and redefining what beauty means. I think sometimes people also think that body acceptance is the same thing as body negativity. That was a question that I got asked on the podcast last week and I'm like, body acceptance is not accepting that you're ugly. Body acceptance is accepting your body and learning to redefine beauty and redefine confidence. And then also sometimes stepping away from beauty at all and just being like, this is just my body. I don't have to focus on looking beautiful and feeling, one of my bracelets just broke. 

Nicole: Which one?!

Caitie: What am I saying right now? My bracelet related to slowing down and taking care of myself fully.

Nicole: Ooh, you were talking about letting go beauty standards.

Caitie: And then sometimes it's just not about beauty at all. We just let go of beauty as a concept and just let our bodies be bodies. And let our bodies be the tools, the vessels, the vehicles that carry us through our lives, the tools, the vessels, the vehicles that allow us to feel good and allow us to heal and allow us to communicate and allow us to experience all of the pleasures and sensations and amazing experiences of life. And so it's all it's about really letting so many things be true at the same time too. 

And I think the most important point in Nicole's story too is just knowing that thinness is not a cure for insecurity. It's simply not. It might seem like a temporary bandage for insecurity. But no band-aid lasts forever. Every band-aid gets old and dusty and gross after a little bit and falls off. And I think it's important to remember that thinness is a really weak band-aid if you're feeling a lack of confidence and insecurity around your family. And it might be objectively true that members of your family get a different type of attention than you because of their thinness. That might be true, and that's really important to not deny that. And also, listen to last week's episode. Because I think it kind of answers a lot of the rest of what I could say about feeling like you're not getting approached because you're not thin and things like that. So that's a question. The listener question from last week, I think also answers that question. So thank you so much for this. 

Let's dive into our topic for today. So as I mentioned, Nicole is my absolute best friend, and she also is my right-hand woman at Full Soul Nutrition. I wanna briefly share a story that early last year I hired Nicole and Nicole was one of the first people to sign up for the first ever group coaching program that I ever did. So she not only has gone through the beautiful mess of healing her own relationship with food and her body and fully and completely understands like the mission and vision of my business. She also has a completely different brain than me and has such a brain for operations, whereas I have a brain for counseling and nurturing and supporting and also dreaming really big and far and wide. And Nicole has been someone who has helped me kind of like rein in all my dreams and put them into action.

I think we really do have such a uniquely beautiful friendship that allows us not only to have been friends for so long, but also allows us to work together in a capacity that is healthy. And I asked Nicole to answer some questions, two prompts we're gonna go through together that I think will hopefully inspire some of your ideas about making friendships last. So I asked Nicole to answer first three reasons why our friendship has lasted so long. And I answered this question too. So Nicole, you can read your first one and then I'll read my first one and then you read your second one and I'll read my second one.

Nicole: I'm really curious if our answers are going to be the same. I feel like maybe they won't be. So I'm very excited for this. But the first reason is that, and of course, like there's so much duality in this, we're both always talking about that and like the nuances and all these things. But I think the first reason why our friendship has lasted so long is that we are absolutely ridiculously silly together. But also really deeply emotional together, which I think is so beautiful. Yeah, we're just like so ridiculous when we're together. It's like so childlike. My mom always says that we're just so giggly. Like we'll be sitting at my kitchen counter and my mom is like, you guys are just always laughing, you never stop laughing. And that's just true. We're just so silly. And we just talk about the dumbest things. We make every situation into an inside joke. Like every single situation we have an inside joke about, I kid you not, we could truly talk to each other in our own inside joke language and no one would have any idea what we're saying, you can ask our ex-boyfriends if you need a reference on that. Both with the same name, by the way. Shout out. 

Caitie: Shout out to the Matts. I said it.

Nicole: Yeah. Hope the Matts are doing well. Love that we just called them out. Yeah, so we just can't be controlled in the silliness and we're obviously having a hard time keeping it together right now, so I'm going to try to remain cool. But we have that and then on the other end of the spectrum, we have both seen each other and some of our most vulnerable and emotional moments in life. We've been friends for 18 years, so our friendship is a legal adult. Crazy. Absolutely crazy.

Caitie: What? 18 years? Are you fucking kidding me?

Nicole: Yeah, 18.

Caitie: I’m shocked at this information!

Nicole: Our friendship can drive, our friendship's on the way to college.

Caitie: Oh my goodness. Yeah, I mean I can share my what I put as number one on my list and the range of our friendship definitely crossed my mind. Like the fact that we have such a silliness together and also such a seriousness together. And I take you so seriously. And I'm also laughing with you nonstop. Like that is like the dream soulmateship. Truly. There's this quote that's like the goal is to laugh forever with someone you take seriously. And I always thought about that in terms of like a partner until I realized that I have that with my best friend. Like the range of our friendship is so important and the capacity that we have to just hold space for all of that range within the same 15 minute timeframe. 

But that wasn't even what I put as number one. That's just me expanding on your thing. But what I put as number one is that you know absolutely every single thing about me. Like everything about me, pure honesty, all times. And I am never afraid that you're gonna be mad at me for something not because you never get mad at me or never get annoyed at me, but because even if you do, I know that I never have to fear abandonment and that is really special. I can tell you absolutely anything without fear that you'll get angry at me, not because you won't, but because when you do, we'll repair and it'll be fine. And we don't even need to repair most of the time because there's just such a deep trust between us that there's this just mutual understanding of we're gonna move on from the situation. I also never need to be afraid that anything I share with you is gonna be seen as weird. You're never gonna be like, you're crazy and I'm not talking to you anymore because even if you were to think that, oh, you're crazy and you're weird and that's a lot, Caitie, you still accept me. There's just this unconditional acceptance and just like pure honesty. And like there even was something in our friendship that I hadn't opened up to you about until like maybe three or four years ago. Something about my really early, my childhood. And I hadn't, like we had been friends for at that point, I guess 15 years apparently, because we've been friends for 18 years. And I hadn't told you about this thing until three years ago. And I remember it being one of the most meaningful memories of my life, just how I was able to just sit down and process this trauma with you that I hadn't processed with any other friend. And it felt easy almost. What did you put for number two?

Nicole: For number two, I put that we encourage each other to grow and evolve. And you know, our friendship is long. We've been friends for a really long time. And I think we kind of just, we don't even say this, but we kind of just give each other permission to grow and change. And we have seasons where we don't talk as much and seasons where we do talk a ton. And I think having the flexibility in that without it being a thing to be guilty about is really important. And I think we also just push each other to be the better versions of ourselves. We're not afraid to tell each other what we think and give advice and we want each other to grow and to be better. And I think in certain friendships that maybe are not as healthy, people kind of hold each other back for the sake of control or for the sake of things remaining the same. And that's just not realistic. So I think the fact that we do give each other that permission to grow as we need to and evolve as we need to is just really special too.

Caitie: I will never forget when we were living together in New York in like, you know, 2019 to 2020. And I got this really amazing opportunity to move into an apartment alone. That was unheard of. I got this crazy low rent in a one bedroom apartment that a friend basically had tossed to me because she didn't need the apartment. And it was a family apartment and it was a whole thing. And it was an incredible opportunity to live alone, but I was never going to be able to live there with a roommate. And so I had to, you know, stop living with Nicole to, in order to take this apartment opportunity, but we had kind of made this deal together that we were gonna live together for like a couple years. And I basically called Nicole and was like, I have to move in alone. And she was just like, okay, that makes so much sense. That's fucking awesome. And I remember it being a shocking moment to me because I had never had a friend not it mad at me for something like that. Going to NYU, I actually had lived with like a couple of different friends in the city and had to break up with them. We had to end the roommateship for one reason or another. And every single one of them got mad at me. Like, sorry, guys, if you're listening, they all got mad at me. It was like a thing. 

Nicole: We're calling so many people out today.

Caitie: And I'm not calling any of them out, but it was just true. So I had that in my brain that like, if I tell someone I don't want to live with them anymore, they're going to get really mad at me. But this unconditional permission to evolve has just like always been a thing for us. And yeah, no one who is in a really supportive and deep friendship with you. And I'm still friends with some of the people who got mad at me for not living with them anymore to be clear. But there was something that was unevolved about our friendship at that time. Like we were immature when that stuff kind of happened. And Nicole, I and I just I feel like we have a really like is kind of just like go ahead and evolve, like do your thing, like follow your dreams, baby. Go live in Lisbon, go live in Denver, go do the thing. Like, you know, five billion other evolutions have happened since that one little, like, I'm not living with you anymore thing. 

I put for number two, and I think the fact that we put different things really just speak to the fact that we do have this sort of yin and yang kind of brain thing going on. Like we never think the same thing ever. We don't finish each other's sentences. Like we're not those kinds of friends. Like we're not twins. We are really different. Like I am like hard Scorpio, like Nicole's like a hard Aquarian. Like that made sense to anyone listening. So what I put for number two is we give to each other in a way, in the way that only we can, you know, I think sometimes I can speak for myself. I expect people to give to me in a way that they can't. Like I expect, especially with my parents, I think we all do this with our parents, right? We expect them to be able to give us something that they as a human being actually don't have the capacity to provide, just given where they are in their life or their personality or whatever it is that they're capable of giving. And you know, that's true of all people though. Like all people cannot be all things to all people. You can't be everything to everyone. And we don't expect each other to be everything to each other. There's certainly a very solid foundation for our friendship in that I'm very confident that you are my best friend and I can really call you anytime and tell you anything. But I know I can't get everything from you. Like Nicole has this incredible capacity to listen really, really deeply and also help me organize my life and cook me breakfast and nurture me. And there are certain things that you're just so, so good at. And there are certain things that I would just never go to you for. And I have other friends for that stuff. And I have other support systems for that stuff. And I have a therapist for that stuff. And there are certain things that I know you can never come to me for. For example, I'm completely inept when it comes to, I'm trying to like think of a way to like say this concisely, like tactile things. Like, you can't be like, Caitie, can you tie this bow at the back of my dress? 

Nicole: I do that. I'm the one who does that.

Caitie: Can you do my hair? Like, Caitie, can you, like, do you have time to like make this call or like do this thing? There are just like certain things that like I have a very limited capacity for, that Nicole has a capacity for. And I think like, you know, like if you need support with like a self worth thing, like a breakup thing, like a food thing, like a something. You just, I'm sure you can state what you can come to me for, but like, yeah, we just don't expect each other to be everything.

Nicole: Yeah, I love that because I think that with all these unrealistic expectations, it just results in you being disappointed all the time. And I don't think we create the opportunity for us to be disappointed in each other. Which is why our friendship has lasted so long and why we don't fight. It's not that we don't have arguments sometimes and tiffs, but we don't have like intense fallout kind of fights. And yeah, I just think that's such a special thing to say in general too, because I think people often look for that in romantic partnerships, and that just shouldn't be the case in romantic partnerships either. So why would it be true in friendships or in family? Everyone has such a different purpose. Of course, people can fill a lot of different roles, maybe just not 100% of them.

Caitie: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Um, all right, what'd you go for number three?

Nicole: Okay, for number three, I put that we never run out of things to talk about. Like you and I can just talk, talk, talk for a million hours. Like we had a work meeting. That was just a work meeting on Sunday for three hours. Like, and we weren't even done.

Caitie: Three hours?! I didn’t even notice.

Nicole: Well, I didn't notice either, but like, you know what I mean? Like we just never shut up. And, you know, every time whenever we've lived together or whenever we traveled together, we're just constantly talking like sleepover style. When we lived in New York together, our apartment was so weird, we had a cut out in the wall so we could talk to each other through our bedroom walls. So we would just be up to like two, three in the morning every night just talking about this stupid shit through the wall. And then whenever we, yeah, it was a great time. So many mems. And then like whenever we travel together or like staying at each other's houses or whatever, we'll be like, oh, okay, good night. And then we're standing in each other's doorways for another four hours.

Caitie: And I think the reason for that is because I can truly share with you whatever it is that's on my mind. I don't need to retreat to my room because anything I'm gonna think about in my room, I can just share with you. And it's like, I think that it has to do with that unconditional honesty piece. And it all comes back to communication. So many of my clients who kind of mentioned some of their challenges with friendships to me I find myself saying a lot like have you just told them this? And they'll be like, no. And shout out all of my clients, I adore all of you, and I'm not trying to call you out. I'm just saying that there are a lot of people who share this experience of just not communicating and being afraid to communicate, frankly, right? We're afraid people are gonna be mad at us, but I think it's important to assess who should still be in your life by seeing what happens when you share your truth with them, because if someone's not responding kindly to you expressing how you're feeling or whatever your truth is, whether it's about your feelings or something else, in a calm way, then they're not supposed to be in your life. And it really can feel as easy as being able to talk to someone about stupid shit until two o'clock in the morning. It really can feel like it flows that way. Communication is just so important, just like honest, straightforward, like, hey here's what's going on for me right now. So yeah, but that was not what I put for number three. I put something different. Look at that. 

Nicole: Shocker.

Caitie: For number three, I put, we go on adventures together. We take risks and we take leaps together. We travel together. Now we're in business together. We're organizing a retreat together. We take these leaps together. And I think that when you go through risky experiences or travel adventures with another person, it gives you the opportunity to go through literally the most annoying, like sticky, terrible situations in life with that person. When you're traveling with someone, you're not only standing at the top of the mountain with a beautiful view with them, you're also standing at the airport with them. You're also trying to make the train in Caserta and about to miss it. And it's just so stressful and you're spending a lot of money together. You are also having inconvenient moments. You're also having like peanut allergy reactions with them. Like you're also like, there's just like a lot of things that you experience when you go on adventures with someone and you become so close. I mean, a lot of the experiences that you and I have had in Italy and Portugal and Spain and Florida and California and New York and just I mean like so many places we've been together. These experiences have bonded us. There's something that's just imprinted in ourselves now from these really meaningful adventures that we've had together and these moments that we've held each other up through really annoying situations and also through really fun situations where we've just like met the most random like awesome people when we're out like it's just and that's why I am so excited for everyone to come meet us in Scotland because we basically just feel so inspired to bring a group of women together for an experience like that where they can meet people and they can stand in line at the airport together and they can navigate all of those little mundane moments and also annoying moments and also big beautiful moments together because that's where a relationship is built. A relationship is not only built in the big grandiose moments at the Eiffel Tower. I would actually argue that the relationship doesn't flourish at all there. The relationship flourishes on the journey, not the destination. It's like, honestly, all the things that you need to do to get to where you're going, if you're doing that together. I mean, there's no better way to form a bond with someone. That's why some of my other like really close friends are people that I studied abroad with in college because we just went through so much shit together. 

Nicole: Yeah, and it's funny, as you were saying that, I was kind of reflecting on all of the many travels we've done together and still to come. And I feel like, of course, I remember the good things, but I think the more sticky parts of it and the times where we were having a crisis were the things that I remember the most because we were able to get through them together, we make a joke of it, and we were able to just be there for each other and give each other what the other person needed in those moments.

Caitie: What is your favorite crisis that we went through together when we were traveling?

Nicole: I was thinking of our day trip to Positano because I feel like there were just so many things happening. So we were staying in this Airbnb, lovely Airbnb but the mattress was the most uncomfortable mattress I've ever slept on in my life. It was basically the floor. We were up, we didn't sleep. We were literally both just staring at the ceiling like we have to wake up in three hours, but I can't sleep. And I think you had gotten a little bit of sleep. I got literally zero hours of sleep and we're on. We finally made it to the ferry. We missed the first ferry. We got on the ferry to Positano. I'm sitting there like, I feel like I'm going to die. And Caitie’s like, it's so beautiful. And I was like, I can't function. I need to eat something. 

Caitie: So it was a day trip that we took to Positano from Rome because we couldn't afford to stay in Positano but we were like let's take a day trip to Positano from Rome. Our Airbnb host was like, babes this is a very ambitious day trip you're doing right now. We were like we know we're ambitious. But in order to get to the fucking ferry you kind of missed the part where we were on a bus for three hours and the bus came to get us from Rome at like 3am and we're sitting at the bus stop at 3am in the dark waiting for the bus to come that came 25 minutes later than it was supposed to and I was so dysregulated thinking we were maybe gonna die because we were just sitting at the bus stop in the dark and I'm like is this worth it for a day trip to Positano like just we're gonna die at this bus stop and you braided my hair at the bus stop.

Nicole: Yeah, I just remembered that.

Caitie: We were just sitting at the bus stop and you just started brushing and braiding my hair and this is the kind of friendship that we have. I will never braid your hair back but I will keep the spirits up when you're getting down on the ferry. And so anyway that was a that was a good example. I'm trying to think of this if there's just like one more that I can think of.

Nicole: I mean, you were so sick when we were in Barcelona for my birthday, and you had to like, completely rally. And you did. And we had a great time.

Caitie: Yeah, oh my god. Yeah, I did. I rallied. I rallied for your birthday. That was a little bit of a crisis. But I think like, I also want to share the fact that we, we went to London for my birthday this year. Or I met Nicole in London for my birthday this year. And we went to a bar for my birthday weekend and I ran into my ex-boyfriend who I hadn't seen in person for a very long time at said bar and I feel like it's a really important moment for our friendship. We always talk about how it was an important moment for me to kind of just speak my truth to my ex-boyfriend and kind of just be like, you know, a little bit of a, it wasn't, I'm not gonna call it a revenge moment. I'm gonna call it a revival moment. 

It was an important moment for our friendship because the first thing Nicole did was turn to me and say, what are we doing here? What do you need? What's the game plan? Like let's go. Like always, always prioritizing my needs over the drama. And I think that there is a lot of friendships wherein someone would have just like seen my ex-boyfriend and kind of given into the dramatic storyline of it and kind of wanted to like, I don't know, make it like a spill the tea, like the drama, real housewives flipping the table kind of moment and Nicole was like, what do you need? Let's regulate you first. What do you wanna do? Like, where are we going? And I think that was just, honestly, it was, I talk about how it was an important moment for my life, but I think it was more an important moment for my friendship because there was just a lot of, a lot of moving parts there.

Nicole: Yeah, that's actually so interesting you say that too, because I feel like whenever we talk about our exes and the possibility of running into them, I'm always like, by running into your ex, I'm gonna curse the day they were born and like all of this big talk. And in that moment, I was like, what do you want to do? Do you want to leave? Do you want to go up to him? What can I do for you? Like all of that. And I think, well also, first of all, you're like, is that him? And I kind of went over and was like, is that? Because I wasn’t sure because he looked a little different. So that was just funny. But I think that in general, we don't really have a lot of drama in our friendship. Like we never do. 

Caitie: Yeah, I think drama comes from a lack of communication and jealousy. I think that's what causes drama and friendships. Like when someone's not, when someone's feeling angry at another person and not expressing it, or someone's feeling resentful of another person because they're doing something and like not expressing it, I think that's the first thing that causes drama is like because resentment just builds up and then things explode. And then the other thing that causes drama is jealousy. When someone, instead of being happy for their friend, they just are jealous and get kind of angry and spiteful. And I think that we're allowed to be jealous. I feel like telling yourself to not be jealous of something is like telling yourself to like not think about a polar bear. Like all you're gonna do is think about a fucking polar bear. If I say don't think about a polar bear, you can't like not be jealous. It's like, don't be jealous. That's like, no, it be jealous. But also, can you look at that jealousy a little more closely and see what it's trying to teach you? And within that jealousy, can you also allow yourself to just celebrate your friend so completely and so deeply? I think jealousy comes up a lot with career related stuff. When I started my own business and it became successful, I don't know that Nicole was never jealous of it. I do know that she celebrated the shit out of every single step of it out loud and completely and joined my group coaching program and now works for me. I don't know that she was never jealous, but I do know that if she was, she took a closer look at it and was like, okay, here's what I'm learning from that. Here's what it's showing me about my desires. And then just unequivocally celebrated me. And I think jealousy comes up a lot with relationship related stuff. And if Nicole's ever in a relationship, it's like, if I'm jealous of that, it's only because I desire a relationship deeply. And that's where that's coming from. And also how amazing is it that my friend is getting the love and affection and attention that she's craved for so long and didn't get as a child in some ways. I know this about her, like how beautiful that she's healing in that way. So yeah, I feel like that's what causes drama is lack of communication and presence of jealousy.

Nicole: Yeah, I agree. I feel like we should move on to the next prompt.

Caitie: Next prompt is three things I see in you that I want to show the world more. You can say all three if you want. I'll just sit here and get gassed up.

Nicole: Yeah, I'll shower you. Okay, so the first thing I want you to show the world more is your humor. And I don't say that to say that you don't show the world your humor at all, but I think that you are one of the funniest people that I know. And I don't think that people see that as much because I think the way you portray yourself on this podcast and in your business is of course in a professional way, naturally, it’s your business. But I think that people would enjoy your humorous dynamic a little bit more. And you grew up around two really funny brothers. And I feel like that has completely shaped your personality, especially in terms of your humor. And I think that that.

Caitie: We don't have to gas up my brother's on this one. 

Nicole: I love them, I'm gassing them. Shout out to them too. But anyway, I just think that kind of marrying that with the seriousness of what you do and what you show the world is just something that could be really beautiful.

Caitie: I think that I reserve my humor for the people that are really, really close to me because I tend to feel like if I slide into that part of myself, I won't be perceived as a professional clinician. And the truth is that we're supposed to be dynamic as human beings, so thank you for saying that.

Nicole: Yeah, well I feel like my next two kind of feed into that same theme. So the second one is your spirituality. And you are just the most spiritual person I know. I feel like you're psychic. And you love all the spiritual stuff. Like you love your crystals and cards and reiki and sage and palisade and incense and like all that stuff. And I always joke, but I'm very serious when I say this, is that I trust your intuition more than I trust mine. And that's not to say that my intuition is off. That's just to say that yours is just beyond strong to the point where I feel like it kind of, it's just more psychic is what I mean to say. And I just feel like the fact that you're so tapping to your spirituality is not underscored enough. Like you create a ceremony out of like everything. Whenever we go on a trip, we have an opening and closing ceremony where we like pull cards and journal and meditate and do all this stuff. And I love it. 

Caitie: Whaaaaat?

Nicole: It's crazy. You do that, what? And I know that you've been wanting to marry that clinical nutrition with your sense of spirituality more. And I think that people wanna see that, at least me, when I'm looking at coaches and mentors and counselors, I love seeing those two things being married together because I think when people are too spiritual, I'm like, okay, this is too much, this isn't practical, but you are so good at being practical and spiritual at the same time. And I don't think a lot of people are.

Caitie: Mm-hmm. Thank you. Thank you for that. I'm not going to respond to that. I have time to read yours. So I appreciate that a lot. Expect more spirituality on the spot.

Nicole: Coming soon. Okay, so the third one is your energy. And again, it's not that you don't show this. I just don't think you show it to the extent that you have it because your energy is absolutely boundless. I don't know anyone more energized and excited about life than you. And you also just hype people up to the nth degree. Like you just support people in a way that I, like I can't, like I can support people to some extent but you are just like the ultimate like, let's go, you're amazing, we can do this, let's do it, kind of vibe. And another thing that we both have in common, but I think you have it more so is that we can both rally. We always joke about this, we're the only people who can rally. But the way that you rally is in bringing such a palpable energy, like you're always dancing, you're always smiling, always laughing, like people can feel it emanating off of you. So I think just showing people that more would be really amazing too.

Caitie: Hmm…I'm trying to receive all of this and really give myself a chance to receive all of this. Because these are clearly things that I know about myself and they're things that I didn't realize I wasn't celebrating about myself enough and I wasn't expressing enough with the world. And the reason Nicole and I are doing this exercise right now is because we really want to encourage you to ask someone in your life, what are three things that you see in me that you wish I'd would show the world a little bit more or put forward a little bit more or celebrate about myself a little bit more because this is fucking powerful. And this is another reason why we're doing a retreat because when you spend time together with a group of women who get to know you really, really well, they're inevitably gonna see something in you that you forgot about yourself or that you don't necessarily celebrate in yourself that much. And especially women who are kind of like just meeting you for the first time, but spending time with you in a really intimate way, they're gonna pick up something about you that, yeah, maybe you kind of forgot was there because you're just used to it. 

I personally am so used to my energy. I am used to how energetic I am. I, it's my baseline. And I'm staying here in LA right now with my friend and I saw seven clients yesterday and that's not a lot of clients for me. Like I feel, I'm like, this is just a day. Like, and she was like, what? I could never, but like went off on like a little tangent and I was like, maybe it's true that not everyone could do that. And I totally respect that. It doesn't make me better than anybody. It's just that I do have a lot more energy than the average person and it is genuine. I love what I do so much and I have boundless energy to do what I love. I really do. I don't know if I have boundless energy to like do math. If someone was like, you need to do maths. You need to do maths. Nicole and I love the way the Brits say maths instead of math. If someone was like, Caitie, you need to do maths all day. I would be like, I don't have the energy for maths all day, but I do have energy to dance all day. I do have energy to sing all day. I do have energy to counsel people and talk to people like this all day. I could talk to you on this microphone all day. I'm sure you know that. And yeah, that's, I don't want you to forget that there's so many things about yourself that you're used to. There are so many strengths about yourself that you're used to. And you need people to remind you of them and shine a flashlight on them. 

So here are Nicole's strengths that I want her to show the world more. Presenting Nicole's Strengths, number one, the way that you've embraced being so different from your family. Like, so many people are struggling with that. So many people are struggling with the fact that their parents are accountants and they don't want to be. So many people are struggling with the fact that their family lives in New Jersey and they don't want to be. So many people are struggling with the fact that their parents or their family just has like a different vibe from them. And you've embraced that. And I think you still are struggling with it in some ways. Like obviously we talk about it a lot still, there's still a lot of challenges that come with it. But you're not really struggling with it in the way that you think you are. Like you've come so much further with that than you think you are. You've unleashed yourself from your family, like you really have like, and your family's not like, Nicole didn't like break free from like an abusive, like toxic situation. Nicole's just very different from her family and had to actually set a lot of boundaries in order to be able to live the lifestyle that she lives right now. 

And also I think wrapped up in this is your sense of body acceptance and body image resilience. And that is an incredibly beautiful thing. I will never, okay, I will forget one part of this because I don't remember who it was that you were talking to, but I will never forget what I once heard you say to someone. I don't know who you were with. We were at dinner and someone was like, actually, I remember who it was. We were in Lisbon. We were on a best friend double date. And one of the girls was talking about body stuff and you were like, you know, when I just like accepted that I have a curvy body, everything just like started falling into place, like everything. Like I just was like, you know what, stop trying to change my body. I'm not supposed to be skinny. I'm not going to be skinny. I'm never going to be skinny. And I just was able to stop thinking about food all the time and I can sit at a meal like this and like not be thinking about what my arms look like at the meal. And like, it's just like, everything was just, and I remember like hearing you speak about this. And I was like, wow she's come so fucking far with this and I don't think that you take enough time to celebrate that about yourself and then also share about it because there are other people who could really like use your story.

Nicole: Yeah, I feel like I'm just receiving that too. I feel like I don't even think about it that much anymore. I think this was a big thing for me a year ago when I was really struggling to leave my job. I was like, oh my god, is my family going to think of me? And all this stuff. And of course I still struggle with this now, but I think it's kind of similar to the body acceptance thing. It's kind of just like accepting that I'm different than them. And that's not a bad thing. It's just different.

Caitie: Yeah, I think that your body acceptance was part of you accepting that you're different than your family. But yeah, okay. Number two thing that I wish you showed the world more is that you are so, so gentle and nurturing and caring and you're obviously not like mean to people in the world. You're obviously not like hard and like not gentle, but there's this side to you that is really vulnerably nurturing. And I think that you have been so used to needing to kind of be strong and like defend yourself and kind of like put up a certain like guarded persona in different situations. And because of everything that you've come through with being different from your family in values and lifestyle and body size, you've had to like defend yourself so much and defend your case so much. And so not everyone gets to experience this like mushy Nicole and I think I really bring that out in you, which I'm proud of. And it has nothing to do with me because it's already there in you. I'm just creating a safe space for you to show it a little bit more. But you make me breakfast from scratch. You braid my hair, you brush my hair, you do my makeup, you dress me like you like are my mom. The intro was accurate. There's such a mushy, soft, feminine, nurturing side to you. And I think that you kind of walk around in the world sometimes with this very masculine energy, which is positive. And also, the duality is something that I wish the world experienced a little more.

Nicole: This is something that I've been working on so much recently because like you're saying, I feel like I'm always having to like defend myself and like stand up for myself and like explain myself to people and I'm really trying not to do that anymore but it's so difficult so I appreciate you saying that.

Caitie: Yeah, it's like stop defending yourself, just melt. I'm like using so much body language while I'm talking. I'm like going like this, like waving my arms around, like touching my arms and like rubbing my shoulders the entire time, nurture. 

And the number three thing is that you have an eye for making everything more beautiful. And that's like literally everything. Everything, you can take anything and make it more beautiful. And not only do you take my big visions and ideas. I'm definitely a visionary thinker. I have big dreams and Nicole, like I said, she's been taking them and like operationalizing them and turning them into systems that flow and that's also beautiful. That's another way that she does make things more beautiful is by systemizing them and operationalizing them and budgeting the retreat. And also you turn big visions into just like, or not, not besides the big visions thing, you like can look at like a like a desk and like organize it and make it beautiful and you help people pick out outfits that make them feel beautiful. And you're really good at doing like hair and makeup and those other aspects of beauty that are valid aspects of beauty. And you're good at like decorating homes and like designing things and like combining different colors and like you have an eye for like flowers and like nails and like things like this that actually matter because seeing something beautiful can regulate someone's nervous system so much. Seeing something beautiful can inspire hope in someone. Seeing something beautiful, seeing a beautiful piece of art or turning something that wasn't art into art can save someone's life. It's no small thing. And also making people feel beautiful and more confident via things like fashion and beauty is also no small thing. It's also no superficial thing. It's a real thing. 

And yeah, there's, and you're talking about how you feel inspired to like create more products. And I think you feel guilty about that almost sometimes because you're like, am I a product based person? Like I want to provide services and like help people. And it's like, products help people so much even if they're just beautiful, even if they're just beautiful things, right? Like even if our crystals don't hold the energy that they objectively do hold, by the way, but even if they didn't have the energy, there's still a beautiful thing that's like beautiful to look at and hold and like have on your desk. And like, that's important. People need beauty. I mean, that's what are we living for, if not to experience beauty and see beautiful things. And you create that.

Nicole: Yeah, I really am loving hearing you reflect that back to me because I feel like something I'm trying to teach people through my work is that beautiful things doesn't mean you're materialistic, it doesn't mean that you're a snob. It's important to have beautiful things around and that can manifest in so many different ways. It doesn't mean Louis Vuitton bags. It can mean anything. And yeah, I don't know, I'm just so obsessed with the aesthetic of things and things looking pretty and it just makes such a difference. At least for me, I think.

Nicole: Yeah, I love this exercise.

Caitie: Yeah, so as we're wrapping up here, I really do want to encourage you to do this exercise with one of your closest friends. So basically ask them, what do you think makes our friendship last? What do you think is the glue for our friendship? You don't have to have been friends for 18 years like Nicole and I. And also, ask them what are three things you see in me that I wish I celebrated about myself more or showed the world more? It doesn't have to be your birthday to celebrate their friends when it's like their birthday. And like honestly, I'm overwhelmed on my birthday. I don't want a lot of people to reach out to me on my birthday. I just want like one person to reach out to me on my birthday. I want to just celebrate for myself. It's like an internal spiritual thing. And I wish that more people would send me on January 24th, random, far away from my birthday day, that here are three things I love about you. And then you can save them in a note in your phone and look back at them whenever you need. You can have them write it to you. You can have them text it to you so that you can easily save it in a note in your phone. I think that this is a really important exercise and anyone listening to this episode has to do it. You have to do it. 

Nicole: It's the law.

Caitie: It's also, it is court mandated. So yeah, I'm sorry about that. But as we're wrapping up here, um, Nicole, what's on your heart when it comes to, the three topics that we talked about today, like friendship, comparison, or travel, just like what's on your heart about it? What do you want to share with the class before we wrap up?

Nicole: I just want to share that it's not too late to find the people who align with you. Like I think that... I feel like I had this expectation when I was younger because I was young and dumb, but I just assumed that like all the people I was friends with, I was going to be friends with for life. And sometimes that's the case. Like with you and I, like I'm confident we're going to be in the old home together, like still saying the stupid inside jokes that we made like millions of years ago. But that's just not what's gonna happen with all your friends and that's okay and that doesn't mean that you can't find other people who align with you way better than those people ever did. It's just about being patient and I think that putting yourself out there and traveling like we were talking about or going on a retreat like the one that we are hosting together, those are two perfect ways to meet new people and it's just it's such an adventure when you do things like that. Those are the memories you're going to think about when you're old and you're going to be glad that you made that stretchy investment when you look back on your life. Now is the time. There's no point in waiting. I used to think that I had to wait to have a certain amount of money or to have a partner or for whatever thing to do the things that I actually wanted to do and you don't have to wait. You can do them now.

Caitie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nicole: So yeah, that's what's on my heart today.

Caitie: Oh, yeah. I mean, my yeah, I mean, candidly, I am what's on my heart, too, is like, if you're listening to this, and you think that we're talking to you about coming on our Nutrition & Intuition retreat, we are talking to you. Come join us sit with us in circle become our friend, we want to get to know you and celebrate you and love you and explore Scotland with you and experience both the big adventures and mundane aspects of traveling to Scotland together with you.

So please join us if you're thinking about joining us. And you can learn more about joining us by finding my Instagram at @caitie.c.rd or my website, fullsoulnutrition.com or the link in the show notes, which Nicole's gonna drop in there because she writes my show notes. So that will be in the show notes as well. We have really a very limited number of spaces left, but we're exactly two months out while we're on this microphone right now. And we are so stoked to just invite you to join us. And I'm so stoked to have Nicole back on the pod soon to talk a little bit more about her work in fashion. Today, we just wanted to talk about friendship and be cozy. So thank you so much for joining this conversation. 

Nicole: Thank you so much for having me.

Caitie: Let's end with a deep breath. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five star review on Spotify or Apple or wherever you stream your podcasts from. I'm so grateful you tuned in today. I'll be back on the microphone next week because Nicole will hold me accountable for being back on the microphone next week. And that's why this podcast happens every week because Nicole organizes me and gets my butt in the chair. So thank her for that. Bye.