Things we dive into in this episode:Ā
What are weight loss drugs and how do they impact your body?
What studies and researchers have published about the implications of weight loss drugs
The topic of weight loss drugs as a collective conversation
šResources
Learn more on my website about my In Real Life Retreat and sign up with the early bird rate for exclusive discounts & freebiesĀ until August 15
Silba Staffler (she / her) is a behavioral scientist, somatic coach & sensual arts teacher. She created: a 1:1 coaching practice, food & pleasure reclaming dinners, and Ā the sensual salon & newsletter. Website | Instagram
šEpisode Highlights
Disclaimers!
If you are someone who desires weight loss and you're feeling drawn to weight loss drugs, I will never judge you, shame you, or invalidate you for wanting it.
We live in a weight stigmatizing world. My only goal is to help you make decisions with informed consent. So that means I want to provide evidence-based education on what I know to be true about using weight loss drugs.
I want to help you reflect on your own experiences with this and other similar choices about your health.
I hope the combination of the evidence that we have and the reflection on your own experiences with dieting and restriction and suppressing your appetite will help you make the most informed decision possible.
I get really fired up when I talk about this topic sometimes because it impacts my clients more than I could have anticipated when starting my career in this field.
It's made a lot of my clients, who made such beautiful progress on their relationship with food and their bodies, feel stuck in their healing and triggered by these types of conversations.
Please talk to your Registered Dietician-Nutritionist, doctors, or other healthcare professions about using weight loss drugs.
I will never tell anyone what they should or should not do. But it is important to say that there are other medical professionals that might have a something to tell you about it and help you make the most informed choice possible.
Q&A
What are weightless drugs and how do they impact your body?
Injectable drugs, like Ozempic, were created for people with type two diabetes. In the past few years they have also been prescribed for weight loss.
They mimic a naturally occurring hormone so that your body gets a signal that you're full.
These drugs also slow digestion by increasing the time it takes for food to leave your body, which is also similar to the effect of bariatric surgery.
This mechanism could maybe help with insulin sensitivity and in essence, it can improve your blood sugar if you have type two diabetes.
If you don't have type 2 diabetes, weight loss drugs trick your brain into eating less.
We have some research now that shows that weight loss drugs, like Ozempic, increase your risk of stomach paralysis, as well as like many other serious gastrointestinal conditions. Other studies have shown that a vast majority, if not all, patients on weight loss drugs will regain the weight they've lost when they go off the prescription.
The Magic Pill by Johann Hari is a great resource if you want to learn more about the research and implications of taking weight loss drugs.
He splits people interested in taking weight loss drugs into two categories:
People whose health is compromised and the effects of weight loss drugs, like insulin regulation and blood sugar reduction, could really help relieve those symptoms.
The risks of taking weight loss drugs are worth it in the cases where your health is going to be more compromised without the drug.
People who are more interested in weight loss drugs for aesthetic purposes.
These people do not need the intended health benefits of the drug.
Hari writes in the book that it is not worth taking for this group of people, because the risks do not outweigh the benefits.
As someone who is actively taking weight loss drugs for health reasons, Hari himself isn't sure if it's worth it, based on the research.
He also says that one of his biggest concerns is that this drug impacts our relationship with food and disordered eating.
I'm not living in my healthiest body right now. I definitely don't want to do Ozempic, but I feel like when people look at me, they make me feel like I should just do Ozempic. They make me feel like, why is she not doing Ozempic if she has the option to do it?
We have a brain that is designed to feel safe in the world and the environment that we're in. Our brains are going to produce the thoughts that they need to try to help us feel safe in whatever environment we're trying to acclimate to.
If everyone around us is pro weight loss drug, then our brain is going to tell us that we need to take it in order to feel safe in this environment.
Whatever the social norm is, is gonna be the first thought that your brain thinks. And it's very important to not blame yourself for feeling this sense of pressure.
If you already know the costs of going on weight loss drugs, it's important to decide whether you are willing to sacrifice those costs if you go on the drug.
It's also important to get clear on what your healthiest body means.
It's so valid if you feel like you're not in your healthiest body right now, but why aren't you in your healthiest body right now?
What supportive interventions can you implement to feel your healthiest, whether that be intuitive eating, hydration, sleep, breathwork, movement, etc.
If you're someone who has spent a lot of time learning and implementing the intuitive eating framework, weight loss drugs will impact that and the relationship you have with your body because your hunger and fullness cues are impacted.
This can be likened to any sort of diet and going on a weight loss drug may undo the work you've done to holistically heal your relationship with food.
Thanks for listening! š Stay tuned to Caitieās website for more episode updates and other exciting programs and resources.
Transcript
Caitie: And I could say for me, I'm in the healthiest body I've ever beenin. I'm not in the largest body I've ever been in and I'm not in the smallest body I've ever been in. I'm just in the healthiest body I've ever been in. And let's stop correlating it with size, right? I feel like sometimes these like black and white pieces of content that are like, I gained weight and I gained health. It's like, yes, true for a lot of people. And also let's just take that focus off of weight.Ā
Welcome to Whole, Full & Alive, a podcast helping you feed yourself, feel yourself and be yourself. I'm Caitie Corradino. I'm a Registered-Dietician Nutritionist, a body image coach, and the founder of Full Soul Nutrition, a method that combines nutrition counseling with a powerful toolkit of somatic healing modalities. I have guided hundreds of clients to freedom with food, their bodies, and every aspect of their lives. I've also been through this healing myself. So on this podcast, I want to help you eat with confidence, embrace your body, form aligned relationships, and create a life that you're in love with. I'll share actionable tools, no bullshit stories and interviews that will remind you why you have everything you need within you to feel whole, full and alive. Are you ready? Let's get into it.
Hey, welcome back to another episode of Whole, Full, & Alive, the podcast helping you feed yourself, feel yourself and be yourself. I am so excited and grateful that you are tuning into today's episode. It is a very much requested episode. I have been getting questions about this topic that we are gonna be talking about today. This is the one about weight loss drugs and I gotta be honest, I think I was avoiding doing an episode about this topic for a while. I think I really was like, eh, it's gonna go away. People are gonna see this isn't really working. Ozempic is just getting more and more prominent and more and more casual. People are just being so casual about it. And I think it's time that we talk about this.Ā
And I wanna say on the onset that this is not gonna be, you know, an anti-ozempic episode where I'm just gonna bash weight loss drugs and tell you why you shouldn't do them. This is gonna be an episode where I'm gonna tell you what Ozempic is, what weight loss drugs are, if you're not familiar with what they are and how they work in the body. And I'm going to just give you a nuanced perspective on it with my incredibly amazing, wise, intuitive, beautiful guest.
I am so excited to dive into this topic. We're also going to be telling you what I'd recommend as an alternative if you're feeling like a weight loss drug is something that you're really feeling tempted by right now. So I think that this episode is going to provide a very grounding and nourishing perspective on this topic because I'm seeing a lot of fiery, angry, ungrounded, or just like, it's no big deal, do this thing kind of perspectives on this topic. So I'm really excited to dive in.Ā
But before we do, I really want us to all take a deep breath together. So wherever you are tuning in from, whether you're multitasking or you're just tuning into this episode, I want to invite you to drop into your body because it's really important that we listen to things like this with our body, not just with our brain, right? Like you can figure out if something I'm saying is resonating with you when you're dropped into your body. So let's drop into the body by taking a really deep breath together. When it feels good, take a nice deep inhale through your nose, feel your breath, fill your lungs and expand your back. And then take a complete exhale out your mouth to clear out some tension or stress. Take as many of those as you need throughout the episode, especially if you're noticing yourself maybe get activated while we're talking today. This could potentially be a triggering topic for you. And I totally get that. And I think I am giving fair warning that we are talking about weight loss and weight loss drugs today though. So that's my disclaimer for this episode and nurture yourself and take care of yourself as you're listening.Ā
Okay, before we dive in and I introduce my guest co-host for today, I also want to remind you that registration for my next retreat is now open. If you want to join me and an incredible group of women in Portugal this December, it is going to be the best way to end 2024 and start 2025. I am stoked about this retreat. It is in my home, Lisbon and Sintra. We are going to actually be staying in a retreat center in Sintra National Park. So we'll be at the beach, but we'll also be going into the city of Lisbon. It's going to be an incredible opportunity to explore a beautiful place, but also really heal your body image, feed your soul, move in a way that feels intuitive and joyful, take deep breaths and connect with new community that trust me is gonna be part of your life for the rest of it. So if you're at all interested in this retreat, please check out the link in my show notes. The early bird rate goes until August 15th. And I suspect that this retreat is gonna fill pretty soon. We only have 10 spots. join if you're interested.Ā
All right, all right, all right. My guest today. I am so excited to introduce you to today's guest. She has become such an important person in my personal life so quickly and also my professional life. She has blown my mind. Before I introduce Silba, I want to tell you how I met her because it's just so cool. I was on WhatsApp one day and I posted about my last retreat, my Scotland retreat in a women's group, a women's WhatsApp group in Lisbon. And within like 15 seconds, I received a message from Silba and she was like, hey, I feel like we would just like really vibe. I want to hang out, essentially. I was like, well, you know, I was doing all this like random traveling. I was like in Hawaii, like whole thing, maybe something I'll tell that story. I was like, you know, maybe I'll let you know when I actually am grounded truly back in Lisbon in March.
And I don't know, like what forces of the universe like helped me remember to reach out to you when I was finally like grounded back in Lisbon in March. But I'm so grateful because when I did reach out to you, she told me she was having an event that night in her living room. And could I come? I happened to have a two hour break between seeing clients and it like worked perfectly for me to go to this event. I go to this event not knowing anything about Silba besides that we might vibe. And what happened at this event was life changing. It was called the Sensual Salon. I learned more about being an empowered and embodied woman than I ever thought I could in a very short period of time. And Silba had the perfect combination of spirit meets science. She pulled up an anatomical diagram of the vagina and was like, here's how you can experience more pleasure in your life, but she also led us through these like profound meditations. I had never been to anything more organized, but also so spiritual. And I'm going to give you a formal introduction to Silba, but that was my personal introduction. Silba, welcome to Whole, Full, & Alive.
Silba: Thank you so much. I'm taking it in. And we do vibe. We do vibe.
Caitie: We do vibe. She knew, she knew. And it was just honestly, honestly life changing is such a gift. Silba Staffler, this beautiful lady, Staffler, is that how you say your last name? Okay, good. Sorry. Is a behavioral scientist, a somatic coach, and a sensual arts teacher. She created her own one-on-one coaching practice, also food and pleasure reclaiming dinners, the Sensual Salon, which I just talked about, and a newsletter. And you can connect with her in all of these different ways from anywhere in the world. And I can't wait for you to learn more about her work today because she's such a gift. Thank you so much for being here to talk about this topic with me today. Can you, in your own words, introduce yourself and also tell us a little bit about why you think I brought you here to have the conversation about weight loss drugs? Go ahead.
Silba: Thank you so much, Caitie. I love seeing you in your element. And yeah, you're such a force of nature. Really, really appreciate you and everything that you do. And honestly, just really excited to be here. I feel a lot of bubbles in my stomach and feeling really alive and I'm recording this from nature. So I get to be in also my favorite element in Sintra actually, where you're going to have your retreat.
Yeah. So my name is Silba. Indeed. I'm a behavioral scientist and a trauma informed somatic coach. And in a nutshell, I support busy high achievers to reclaim sovereignty over their mind, their bodies and their energy. And I do this by weaving together a lot of these different traditions and frameworks that I studied. I train as a behavioral scientist. I train as a somatic coach. I train as a transformational coach. And I also trained as a Tao Tantric teacher. And so I bring kind of the mind and the body and the energy system together to have a really holistic understanding of who we are. And I love to work with busy high achievers because busy high achievers are often people who know how to take a box. They're people who are very driven. They know how to make a plan and make something happen. And yet time and again, I see people come to my practice and say, Silba, I have all the things, I have all of the success from the outside, I have it all figured out. And yet something feels like it's missing and I'm so hungry. And this is a term that many of them use, this hunger, this hunger for more, which actually guides them to what actually matters, which is, yeah, we'll explore a lot today. But is a lot more, more deeply rooted than just these check boxes around.Ā
And I mean, this topic feels massive. It feels big. It feels somewhat edgy. I feel like there's a lot of emotions. There's a lot of intensity around it. And I want to share my, my compassionate understanding for anyone that feels frigging confused about it. I was telling Caitie when I first heard about Ozempic, it was just such a no from my body, was like, I don't even want to hear about this. And then more nuance arrived and then more subtlety and then curiosity and wanting to understand and looking at the research. And the perspective that I bring is really a perspective of moving beyond just the black or white. Is it good or is it bad? Is it right or is it wrong? Really trying to understand, okay, what are the implications at the level of how we view the world? What are the implications in how we move in the world? Whether we choose to move in the world with Ozempec or not. And really looking at that from the perspective of living inside of our bodies. What isit, what does it feel like, look like? What does it mean for hunger, for life, for fullness, for aliveness? Yeah, in a few words.
Caitie: That's exactly why I wanted to have this conversation with Silba. I feel it's so important to move beyond the is this right or is this wrong conversation and move into the what does this mean conversation? What does this mean for me in my relationship with my body? What does this mean for the world in the terms of the way we talk about hunger and the way we talk about appetite and the way we talk about food and I agree that the health implications of Ozempic are really important. I'm going to talk about them in a second, but I also really just want to use this conversation about weight loss drugs as an opportunity for us to learn more about, yeah, the meaning of hunger, the meaning of appetite, the meaning of the way we, or the implications of how something like this being introduced into the mainstream world changes the way we look at our bodies and how they're supposed to function, how they're meant to talk to us and how we're supposed to treat them. Yeah, before I dive into what are weight loss drugs, what is Ozempic, is there anything you want to add to that, Silba?
Silba: No, I think that's good for now.
Caitie: Good, good stuff. So, Silba and I together are going to answer some of the listener questions that I've received about Ozempic and weight loss drugs. I keep saying Ozempic and weight loss drugs. Ozempic is the weight loss drug. I just don't like using the brand name that much because one, I'm afraid that there's some sort of bot that's gonna like make this podcast episode like not show up if I use the brand name too much. I am one of those people that believes that that's happening. So I'm going to say weight loss drugs moving forward, but that is really what I mean. I am talking about Ozempic. That is the most popular brand, but there are others. So I'm going to define what they are just in case you feel unclear about exactly what this thing is and what the mechanism of it is. and I'm also going to give two personal disclaimers on my end and, sure. Silba will give some personal disclaimers on her end. And then we'll dive into the questions.Ā
So first things first, let's define what's going on here. So basically celebrities, influencers, and most likely some people that you know, in your personal life have all been talking about the success that they've had with weight loss drugs. Their weight loss success has come by using these weekly injectable drugs. Now these weekly injectable drugs were created for people with type two diabetes, but over the last, I guess it's been two years now, they have been used for weight loss and prescribed for weight loss. And how these weekly injectable medications work is that they mimic a naturally occurring hormone so that your body gets this signal that you're full. These drugs also slow digestion by increasing the time it takes for food to leave your body. So this is kind of similar to the effect of bariatric surgery actually.Ā
So this mechanism, it could maybe help with insulin sensitivity and in essence, it can improve your blood sugar if you have type two diabetes. So these naturally, the mimicking of the naturally occurring hormones, and the slowed digestion, these are things that might help people who have abnormally high blood glucose or abnormally low insulin sensitivity, which are people with type 2 diabetes. But if you don't have type 2 diabetes, Ozempic is literally just a way of tricking your brain into eating less. That's what it is. It tricks you into eating less food.
I started talking about this with clients like a little over a year ago because it kept coming up for them. But I do feel like over the past year since this time last year, the conversation around it has gotten more frequent and terrifyingly more casual. Like so casual. I feel like celebrities and influencers and definitely people in your personal life talk about their success with Ozempic in a casual way. Like it isn't this big, life altering medication to be on. Truly, I mean, and we have some research now, unfortunately, with more time that shows that Ozempic does increase your risk of stomach paralysis, as well as like many other serious gastrointestinal conditions, which makes a lot of sense, right, given the mechanism of Ozempic. And we do have other studies as well as like general consensus from a lot of medical professionals that a vast majority, if not all, patients on weight loss drugs will regain the weight they've lost when they go off the prescription.Ā
So that's kind of like the objective, like information that we have about it right now. The mechanism of it, and we have some research on the gastrointestinal side effects of it. We also have research on whether or not people regain the weight when they stop taking the drug. That's like kind of the objective information. And in addition to giving you that background, I just want to give some personal disclaimers. The first one is that if you are someone who desires weight loss and you're feeling drawn to a drug like Ozempic, I will never judge you, shame you, or invalidate you for wanting it. We live in a weight stigmatizing world. My only goal is to help you make decisions with informed consent. So that means I just, wanna provide evidence-based education on what I know to be true about using Ozempic. And I wanna help you reflect on your own experiences with other things like this. And I hope the combination of the evidence that we have and the reflection on your own experiences with dieting and restriction and suppressing your appetite will help you make the most informed decision possible. That's what I want. I want you to have an informed decision to make.Ā
I also want you to know that I get really fired up when I talk about this sometimes. And I think that sometimes when I get fired up about things, can come off a little bit Scorpio. I can come off a little bit like, And I think that it's important for me to just name that I'm still processing my own emotions around this because it has changed my career. It's changed what I have to talk about in one-on-one sessions with clients. And it's made a lot of my clients who made such beautiful progress on their relationship with food and their bodies kind go into a little bit of a hole and feel stuck. And I think that some people, even my clients who are not considering Ozempic just feel so triggered by all the conversations about it. And I get that. I think that it's important to remember that Ozempic messes with your gastrointestinal system and your hunger and fullness cues and your relationship with food. And it's already shown to have some serious side effects. And so that's why I get really fiery when I talk about this. There's more to be said and we're gonna go there. Silba, do you have personal disclaimers you wanna make?
Silba: Ugh. Well, I already shared my reaction when I first heard about about Ozempic and yeah, the rigidity that I felt in my system with a background of having struggled with food for 15 years in my life in a lot of different expressions. And when I first heard about the the the way Ozempic works, it very disturbingly reminded me of how my body ended up working after years of restriction of the slower bowel movements and the slowed down metabolism and the slower emptying rates of my stomach. And so I almost felt like there was this like flashback of, my God, this is what I, what I experienced and honestly for me was then the cause of a lot of health conditions which were diagnosed as autoimmune conditions, but really were just a result of restriction and of not trusting my body and not trusting my hunger. And so I felt very, very activated by the mechanism that this, yeah, these weight loss drugs use.
And that's also why I took time. That's also why I took, it took me a few months before I was able to get curious and I was able to actually go and study more. And I was kind of forced by it because I started working with clients who brought it up and some clients who actually came to me taking a Ozempic and wanting to come off it. Some clients that were really disturbed by just how prevalent it had become around them and felt like they had gotten better. Or some people who started thinking about food and body image a lot more because of the drastic changes they were seeing around them. So in a way I was forced to open myself and to become curious. This is my second disclaimer of I am not a medical practitioner or a healthcare practitioner in the sense that I'm not medically trained. And so what I share doesn't come from that place. And I am trained as a somatic coach and I have been an explorer of the human experience for my entire life.Ā
And I'm really, really, really interested and curious in seeing how this is gonna evolve a lot of the conversations that were maybe under the radar. I feel like, especially when we speak about disordered eating, there's a lot that's been, yeah, like pushed under the rug or that, yeah, that is kind of avoided or minimized. And this kind of, yeah, this proliferation of this drug increases the volume, increases the heat for a lot of us and for that I am grateful because I feel like it's bringing to the light something that a lot of us have been experiencing in secrecy. And it's showing us that it's not a personal thing. It's a societal, a big societal problem, issue. And so that is the one thing that gives me a lot of hope around it is like, okay, volume has been increased. How are we meeting the conversation? What do we do about it? How do we choose to act? And how can we feel empowered in that process?Ā
It's the same as Caitie, zero judgment for anybody considering taking this or who's on it right now. I work with patients who are on it. work with patients who are seriously considering it. I work with patients who are coming off it. So no judgment. And indeed, this is really a question of sovereignty. When I said, like, I support people in gaining sovereignty over their mind, bodies, and energy, this is a question of sovereignty. It's really a question of where are our choices coming from and who are we making them for? And I'm just so grateful to be able to even have a voice in this conversation and also have had so much harm from a lack of food that I guess it makes me more immune than other people to the temptations of a quick fix.
Caitie: Yeah, where are choices coming from and who are we doing them for? I think that's a really beautiful question. Something I very commonly find myself saying to clients is, says who? Like when a lot of things come up related to nutrition, I shouldn't eat carbs and two meals in a row, right? Blah, blah, blah. says who? Says who, where are choices coming from and I do believe that's a really important thing to highlight. I think that's one of the things that Ozempic is bringing to the surface is like, well, can we look under the hood of our default assumption that we should be doing this drug if we're living in a larger body? Doing this drug, it sounds like it's a hard drug. Using this drug, you know, if we're living in a larger body. And also another thing, as you said, that it's bringing to light is just how much people like are feeling like they're so responsible for suppressing their appetite. Like appetite is associated, it's like a willpower thing. Like if you have a big appetite, that's inherently bad. And so we wanna do what we can to control our appetite.Ā
And I won't forget that I saw a clip of Whoopi Goldberg and Kelly Clarkson, two very powerful women in pop culture saying to each other that they were both on Ozempic and they were clapping for each other because she's like, it's just so great. I'm never hungry anymore. And it's like, my gosh, like I can't believe that that's a conversation that's being had, but it's like, that's a conversation that was always being had behind closed doors. But now because we have this mainstream thing that a lot of people are using, we kind of are just putting a spotlight, I feel, on what's already always been there.
And I think as you were giving your disclaimers, I also kind of thought of one more disclaimer that I want to give before we start answering the first listener question, which is that this is a valid tool for some people. Like Ozempic is a valid tool for some individuals. There are some individuals who need medical intervention for insulin resistance, who need medical intervention for blood sugar control. And this can be a valid tool for some people. I'm not writing this off for all people. And I think we've already said this like 85 times, but the goal of this episode is not for us to just be like, we're here to convince you why you shouldn't do this. Like we're here to just talk about the implications of this and kind of get a conversation going that we feel isn't really being had about this topic. So I hope feels helpful and of course nothing I say is a substitute for any individualized medical or mental health advice. And I am trained medically. So I do wanna say that because I feel like a lot of people are taking advice only from medical doctors when it comes to this. Please talk to your Registered Dietician-Nutritionist about Ozempic, it's super relevant. I will never tell anyone what they should or should not do. But I think it is important to say that there are other medical professionals that might have a something to tell you about it and help you make the most informed choice possible. so let's dive in.Ā
Let's dive in. The first listener question that I received about this is I know I'm not living in my healthiest body right now. I definitely don't want to do Ozempic, but I feel like when people look at me, they make me feel like I should just do Ozempic. They make me feel like, why is she not doing Ozempic if she has the option to do it? And I want to send a lot of compassion to this person who sent me this DM because first of all, I can tell that you are being so just honest. Like you're really facing something and there's something inside of you that is making you feel like, people are looking at you and thinking, why isn't she just doing Ozempic? And I want to say that I just, I get, I understand this question. I really feel you and I just send you a lot of compassion and gratitude for just writing it down in the stream of consciousness way that you did. So, Silba, do you want to start with this one?
Silba: Well, the first thing that comes up is I'm trained as a behavioral scientist. That means I have a Master's of Science in Behavioral Science. I studied this at university and then actually applied behavioral science as a consultant in London for a few years. So we were applying behavioral science to different business issues and policy making. Some of that policy was really interesting, helping people to reduce smoking. Basically, how do we create interventions that actually make people change behavior? And one of the most effective interventions always in every single project we had, and I worked on like more than 50 projects in my time at this company, was the intervention of social norm.
So by stating a social norm to people, you make them incredibly more likely. Like the likelihood increases so much by which they will make that same behavior than what the social norm is. So social norm being the norm in society. So what the majority of people are doing. And unfortunately, we're getting to a place where where Ozempic is becoming a social norm, or at least it's becoming a social norm that people consider it. And I would add it's becoming a social norm for people who feel like they should be at a different weight for them to take it or consider it. So what this is showing is just how much of a stigma there is against bigger bodies, how much of a focus on weight. And we were speaking about this with Caitie before we got on air of kind of confusing weight and health, which in my experience is not the case.Ā
I work a lot with women around their pleasure and their vitality, which is part of reclaiming sovereignty over their mind, bodies and energy. And I have learned to really interact with women to understand what is their experience of being human, of being in their bodies. And so much of my own internalized stigma got disconfirmed and completely questioned when I realized that there is literally no correlation between the size of a body and vitality and pleasure. And actually, it's gone the other way. I've, I've met a lot of very skinny women, very perfect looking, according to a very specific, idea that's out there, or image that's out there, and who felt very empty inside, who felt like they didn't know how to connect to their bodies. They didn't feel sensual. They didn't feel alive. They didn't feel juicy. They didn't feel in their pleasure. While other women who may have had some, some questions around, I too big? Should I be in a different body? Were just, yeah, an embodiment of joy, of pleasure. They were an inspiration for many around them in terms of how much, yeah, how much fullness they could contain and therefore how much life they could contain and how much generosity they brought to the table.
Yeah, so this is a few thoughts, initial thoughts about number one, social norm is proven in behavioral science as the number one intervention that is going to make people question their behavior and potentially change their behavior. And so it's so normal that as social creatures, when the norm becomes more and more a norm of taking Ozempic, that yeah, that this makes you want to change behavior, like a part of you feels like you should. And then the second piece, is just around really being cautious in what do you mean by you don't feel that you're healthiest? Is there an assumption that you are in a bigger body and therefore you should look different? And if that's the case, then how can you move beyond that?
And my question would be, what is your lived experience of being you? What is your lived experience of feeling joy in your day-to-day life? And if it is more joy that you want to feel, if it is more happiness, if it is more freedom, is Ozempic a solution for that? And it's a question. Yeah. So these two parts, Caitie, I'd love to hear what what you think on this.
Caitie: I want to underline, highlight, circle what you said about the social norm, because I think that's such a beautiful point to bring to this. Our brains are going to brain, right? Like we have a brain that is designed to feel safe in the world and the environment that we're in, right? So our brains are going to produce the thoughts that they need to produce to try to help us feel safe in whatever environment we're trying to acclimate to. And if everyone around us is engaging do it like weight loss drugs, like it's no big deal, then our brain is gonna be like, in order for me to feel safe in this environment, I should also engage with this, like it's no big deal, right? Like that is gonna be most likely the automatic thought that pops up as Ozempic becomes a social norm. Whatever the social norm is, is gonna be the first thought that your brain thinks. And it's very important to not blame yourself for feeling this sense of
well, everyone's assuming that I should do it. So maybe I should just do it and I'd feel safer if I did it. You probably would feel a little safer if you did it in some sense. You probably would feel like you're acclimating to that social norm in some sense. So I'm not denying that in some sense that could feel like a safety anchor for you if you were to do this. Are the costs worth that potential benefit of joining in on the norm is the most important question. And it sounds that you already know that the costs aren't worth it. So it's a matter more of making peace with the costs, making peace with potential stigma and potential judgment and potential assumptions that not everyone's gonna be making. That's important to know is that not everyone is going to be judging you for not using Ozempic. That's very important. It might seem in your brain that that's the case, but not everyone. Some will though, right? And so how can we make peace with those judgments and not only make peace with those judgments, but find peace and health and freedom.Ā
And I love the point you made about, you know, what is your healthiest body? It's like, it's so valid if you feel like you're not in your healthiest body right now, but why aren't you in your healthiest body right now? Is it your digestion? Is it fatigue? Is it, you're feeling like you don't have the stamina that you're desiring. Is it that you feel like you don't have an appetite? Is it that you feel like you are not regulating your food intake? It feels dysregulating when you eat. Like what are the markers of not being in your healthiest body? Because chances are there's likely a supportive intervention that you can take to get yourself into your healthiest body. If we get really clear and aligned on what being in your healthiest body means to you. Maybe it means you're a little stronger. Maybe you want to do a strength-based intervention. Maybe it means you sleep better. Maybe you want to do some sleep interventions. And maybe it means you just feel sexier in your body. Maybe you want to do some sex interventions that Silba can talk to you about. Right?Ā
And it's just so important to acknowledge the nuances of weight. Right? So many people do say that you need to lose weight in order to be healthier. Thinner is always better. And then there's also people who say after recovering from disordered eating and yo-yo dieting that you have to be bigger. And like, feel the best in, I'm in the largest body I was ever in and I feel the best. And I could say for me, I'm in the healthiest body I've ever been in. I'm not in the largest body I've ever been in and I'm not in the smallest body I've ever been in. I'm just in the healthiest body I've ever been in. And let's stop correlating it with size, right? I feel like sometimes these like black and white pieces of content that are like, I gained weight and I gained health. It's like, yes, true for a lot of people. And also let's just take that focus off of weight. Like I'm in the healthiest body I've ever been. Am I in my largest body ever? No. Am I in my smallest body ever? No. But I am objectively just in a healthy body since I'm practicing health promoting behaviors right now. That feels really good for me. You have thoughts on that?
Silba: So many. Yeah, one thing that's coming up is I've been doing a lot of research on this topic. Obviously, it's grabbing my attention. And there's this wonderful writer, Johann Hari, who wrote a book about Ozempic called The Magic Pill. And he researched everything that he could about Ozempic for the time of his research and now has published a book and he himself is taking the medication and still says he doesn't know if that was the right thing to do. And he says with a lot of humility, so he had a lot of health problems before coming onto the medication. Some of them have gotten better, but other things have gotten worse. Anyway, I like what he says because he says that he assumed. He's written a lot of books, he researches heavily topics, tries to get to some sort of answer, and then comes and shares the answer with the public. And he says this is the first time in his life that he does this research and that he comes out and he doesn't have an answer. He doesn't have an answer whether this is great or not. I mean, he's always nuanced in everything that he shares.Ā
Now he differentiates two main categories of people who may be interested in taking a drug like Ozempic. The first one, people whose health is really, really compromised and the effects of Ozempic, the insulin regulation, the blood sugar regulation that could help them. Considering the enormous risks of Ozempic, those risks would still be lesser than the risks that they currently have in their health situation. That's number one. And that's actually what most of his book is around, to really educate people on the risks so they can make that equation for themselves. He speaks about the 12 big risks, goes really in depth about each of them. And this is really, really, I think, powerful work. And then he speaks about a second category, which are people who are mostly healthy, who are able to live their lives and who are considering taking Ozempic for other reasons, which might be aesthetics, which might be just to feel better, safer in society, which might be to fit into a social norm. And for those, he himself says that he doesn't think it's worth it. That especially of our health is at an okay place, taking a drug that has so many potential risks and such a short-term view, because we don't know what it's like to be on this medication for an entire life. That it's, yeah, it's compromising health. It's not the public has made it to be of being just like, yeah, this like easy, like am I pressing the button or not? Am I like taking this pill or not?Ā
There's heavy consequences, some of which we know about and others we don't know about, which need to be considered and yeah, I'm going to leave it here. I just really felt like bringing that. And if you want to learn more about it, look at his book, Johan Hari, The Magic Pill. And he's been on a lot of podcasts and he actually says that his biggest concern above all else for this medication is the impact on our relationship to food and on people who either have had disordered eating and may have a comeback with just being around people who take Ozempic or because they take Ozempic themselves, people who will develop disordered eating and people who's disordered eating will worsen either because they take it or again because of the environment.
Caitie: Yes, that was such a helpful, just succinct, but beautiful and important structure you just brought to our conversation. I really appreciate that because it is so important to divide this into two groups of people, people who are generally healthy, which of course you and I can spend an entire episode defining what that means. But I think some people who are listening know what we mean by that. And than people whose health is at a significant risk and the risks of the drug could be worth the benefits of the drug. That is so important. I think it's important to create that divination. And also, I think that the relationship with food being one of the biggest, if not the biggest risks is very important to speak of.
If you're someone who's spent time really trying to learn the intuitive eating framework, if you've spent some time really trying to process your body image and your relationship with your body and hunger and fullness, undoing generational body shaming and dieting and your family, and then Ozempic comes around, it really is like a, pulls out all of the nice little stitching of healing your relationship with food and just like completely undoes the ball of yarn or whatever. I'm just like imagining some of the thread being undone. I think that's a really important thing to consider, a really important thing to think about how it does so severely impact your relationship with food and how it can be so, so, it could be likened to every other diet that's ever been out there though. I feel like that's one of the easiest ways to look at it is like so many individuals who have done the work to holistically heal their relationship with food, they can look at something like keto and be like, well, of course I'm not gonna eat only 15 grams of carb every single day. Like obviously it's not gonna work. That's gonna lead to binge eating. That's gonna lead to weight cycling. That's gonna lead to blah, blah. Constipation, all of those things, right? And they can also look at, what's another thing? I mean, carnivore diets are very similar to what I just said, but like that kind of shit. Like you can look at all of these trendy diets and be like, yeah, obviously that's not sustainable. Obviously that's not going to work.Ā
And why not take the same lens to weight loss drugs? Like why not take the same lens to weight loss drugs and just be like, actually, this is just the next thing that's going to cause people to yo-yo in their weight. This is just the next thing that's going to cause people to temporarily lose weight and maybe feel good because all diets work at first, and then it's gonna be completely undone. Can we just look at it with that same lens? I think people have a harder time with this because it's presented as a medical intervention and it's being kind of touted by a lot of people who the world respects and admires and adores and the celebrity endorsement of it, the Oprah endorsement of it, right? Like this is a big thing. You know, Oprah promoted diets in the past, but I don't think she's ever promoted something as severe and wide sweeping as this. And maybe not something as harmful as this because she was doing Weight Watchers before, which like, yeah, I could do a whole episode on why I disagree with that diet as well. But it's like, at least people are eating carbs in Weight Watchers, at least like it was about a balanced diet. It wasn't about suppressing your appetite. And that's what's scary, right? This isn't appetite suppression. Appetite suppression is suppression of your life force, your fire and as we're speaking, so, but I think we're going to have to divide this episode into two parts.
Silba: Yeah, I realized that. I'm like, okay. There's so much more.
Caitie: Ladies and gentlemen, we just did question one. We're going to keep going and recording since we've booked out time for this. But.
Silba: We really love you, question number one. Thank you.
Caitie: We are sending you so many gooey feelings and love and respect and appreciation for sending that question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Silba: Can I share one thing about that, about the like gooey love and appreciation is I really, really want to bring it back to, okay, so what we're trying to do is to share as much information as we can so that we're all making our own choices, right? Again, like I don't have, I don't know what's best for you. I don't know if Ozempic is right for you or not, but beyond also the individual choice of what's right for each person, which honestly only you can know. And if you need support, get like, yeah, a lot of different opinions. But really what I want to point back towards, and it goes back to this idea of social norm of not only like gooey love and feelings, and we're with you who asked this question because we care about you and we're answering this, we're on this podcast.Ā
It's also we're with you because we are actually with you. Like this is a collective, like it's a collective issue. It's something that we are experiencing as a we, as a collective, as a society. And I think the danger of, again, black or white expressions of this debate is that we separate ourselves. We polarize this question when really it's a collective potential to define how we want to relate to hunger, how we want to relate to fullness, how much emphasis and importance we want to place on our bodies knowing what they need and how much we want to move away from an embodied animal natural way of living to a medicalized seeing the body as an object, a reality.Ā
And again, like there's many ways of being within that conversation. But what I feel really passionate about, and I share that actually in every central salon, is the era of me is dead. Like it's about we. We are a collective. These are collective questions. And therefore it's important that we come together. And if we're speaking to women, that we come together as women and we really see what are the bigger collective pieces at play? What are the bigger collective narratives? What are the bigger collective beliefs? And how can we as a collective support ourselves and each other to really stand for what we most care about so that we can stand in our integrity? Yeah, so invitation as well to speak about it with your friends, to bring up this conversation, to bring up these questions and to potentially redefine something together.
Caitie: What a fire way to wrap up part one of this episode. that was, mic drop if our mics weren't on stands. think like that's just that's I mean so much of what you just said is so important and in part two of this episode, we are going to talk more about our relationship to hunger and fullness and why it is a problem that something like this would take us away from just our natural way of being, the way our body was designed to be. And it's really important to undo this sort of like, my body is an object and like a piece of technology way of thinking, right? Because that's how we look at our bodies when they don't conform to our standards of production. Like we've basically like industrialized, capitalized our bodies. Oh, I'm like, why can't I work 22 hours today? Oh, maybe because you're an animal and you live in a human body and we can't just decide that we all of a sudden want our bodies to become machines and computers. And it's like, oh, why can't I take a pill to suppress my appetite and that doesn't cause any problems because you're a mammal and this is just, this is natural to your biology. It's important to consider the risks of this, that's why.Ā
And then also, yes, all of this is collective. All of this is collective. You are not alone. We wouldn't be having this conversation right now if we didn't relate to your questions from.
the depths of our own souls. let's wrap it. Yeah.
Silba: And just the last sentence on that. And again, what I shared earlier about this increases the volume on the conversation. These conversations were happening inside of our heads for most of us. For a lot of people, we would have never expected that they were having these conversations inside of their heads. And this is increasing the volume. It's heating up the surface of this topic. I really see this as an opportunity and that's why like let's move beyond black or white. Let's see this as an opportunity to really ask ourselves those questions. And then a little disclaimer, the next conversation may also be speaking about how this impacts your sexual life and your pleasure. So come back for part two.
Caitie: Yes, love it, living for it. If you enjoyed part one of this interview, this, well, interview, I'm saying it's a guest co-host. If you enjoyed part one of this conversation about weight loss drugs, please come back for part two. We are so excited that there's going to be a part two. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who you think might need to hear this conversation. That is the most meaningful thing that you could do with these words is to share them and maybe you share the episode or maybe you just share what you learned from the episode or what the episode got you thinking about. That's enough for me. And we'll be back here next week.Ā
Silba: See you next week. Bye.
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